and not give your money to a government that's inefficient. >> sean: all of the artists can step up and give their money to government. >> exactly. i'd like to see john boehner give up his social security. >> you can donate your money to charity. you don't need to give it to the government. >> sean: greta is next. see you tomorrow night. >> greta: tonight speaker newt gingrich tells fellow republicans to get a grip. the former speaker of the house calling the fiscal cliff a fantasy that will appear out of nowhere just like the land of oozdid. speaker gingrich is here to tell us about his message for the gop. but first rush limbaugh has a message for democrats. >> you want to go after rich people? go after yourselves, democrats. start with your own perks. show us you've got some skin in the game instead of blaming everybody else. >> no substantive progress has

been made in the talks between the white house and the house the last two weeks. >> we're not going to kick the can down the road. this is no time for delay. >> how gutless is it to blame the taxpayers? >> compromise is necessary in the democrats process, but if we come together we will meet this challenge, and make this session of the congress not a lame duck congress, but a blind duck congress. >> listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. >> we've got to reduce our long-term deficit. that's also important to long-term economic growth. and we have said we need to do that in a balanced way. >> how gutless is it to blame the people who are still working in this country? >> the only reason democrats are insisting on raising rates is because raising rates on the so-called rich is liberalism. >> asking for a political price to be paid in order congress to

do its job, to ensure that the united states of america pays its bills, does not default for the first time in its history is deeply irresponsible. >> how gutless is it to blame them for the problems that exist in this country? >> their interested in wealth destruction. the country doesn't need a victory lap. it needs leadership. >> president obama had said that he has pen in hand, he's prepared to sign the middle class tax cuts. >> i think it's important congress act now, i mean right now. >> they're still not paying they're fair share? the people working have to pay even more in order to cover the incompetent errors by the spenders over all these years. >> greta: former speaker of the house newt gingrich joins us, author of the book "victory at your town." why are you telling house republicans to, quote, get a

grip? >> i think this whole fiscal cliff language is designed to maximize a sense of fear that's nonsense. the very same people, the congress and president, who invented the fiscal cliff -- this is all an invention -- could break it down into 12 foothills. there are 15 foothills, or 20 foothills. they could tackle one problem at the time. i agree with what i understand senator jeff sessions has said, and i think he'll be on your show later, this ought to be out in the open. we're rushing toward a secret deal made in secret meetings where nobody will know what's going on, and then people will be told, boy, if you don't vote for this, we'll go over the cliff. well, i think there are a lot worse things than going over a man-made cliff that i think is entirely artificial. i think the reality is the president of the united states has not come forward with any serious spending cuts. what the democrats are proposing is to take the tax increase now and then sometime next year

eventually possibly we might have some kind of entitlement reform. that's a bad deal for the american people. >> greta: i don't know if it's a deal that anyone expects to be realistically kept. any deal made today in washington is amended next week and the week after or not kept. i mean, it's like you make your deal right now and you hope that even in last -- it lasts through the year. am i right? >> well, the only way to guarantee deals you pass it into law. then it's a lot harder to change them. and my only point is, you know, if we had a game, and every time the term fiscal cliff came up people had to donate a dollar to something, you'd be amazed in the course of a week or two how often this has been repeated like a mantra. i compared to a great essay by tom wolf in which people chanted and made noise in order to get their way. i think we ought to recognize this entire fiscal cliff is an artificial invention of washington, created by people in the congress and the presidency,

and it can be broken down by them into a series of steps that can be taken without having to be rushed into one gigantic last-minute, little understood, with no hearings, one vote up or down, i think it's a terrible way to govern the united states. >> greta: well, the sequestration deadline is coming up the 1st of january. what people are saying on capitol hill, the president is saying, congress is saying, it may be scary stuff, but if we go over the fiscal cliff that all sorts of things will happen, that there will be another recession, we'll go deeper into our existing one, if we have an existing one, jobs lost, the market will crater, should we go over the fiscal cliff, even though it's created by the president, the house, the senate, failed to do their work a year and a half ago and pushed us against this deadline. your thoughts. >> right. my thoughts, they could pass a provision to extend it 90 days,

break it down into a series of projects. the democrats don't want to want to deal with big entitlements, medicare and medicaid. there are 80 different entitlement programs that could be sent back to the states and you could save money. there's a proposal to allow the federal government to actually develop its own oil and gas reserves that are available on federal land that would yield over a trillion dollars in the next two decades. that's revenue, but it's not a tax increase. now apparently for liberals, if it's not a genuine tax increase, revenue you just get by having more money doesn't count. there's a proposal to apply the same standard as visa, mastercard or american express to paying for medicaid and medicare. that would save between $700 billion and a trillion dollars over the next decade. i mean, these are real changes, but they're not changes you're going to get by rushing up to a final last-minute deadline and passing some kind of politically hammered-out bargain.

frankly, given what i've seen from the democrats in the senate, they're not going to give anything. what they want is a paper spending side that has no meaning while they get real tax money on the other side that has permanent meaning. i think everything i've seen so far, this is a very bad deal if you're a tax paying conservative american. >> greta: well, i looked at the white house proposal, the official one tonight, at least the one that was a proposal, from one of my colleagues, and what the white house has proposed, among other things, is an extension of unemployment insurance, white house proposal for refinancing underwater mortgages, a multiyear stimulus package starting with at least $50 billion. their package has more -- i mean, i thought the whole point was for the white house to come up with expenses. these may be things that we might need or that people might need, but it's certainly not cutting. their own suggestion has added on more expenses. >> my advice to house republicans would be to take a page from tip o'neill in 1981,

go back to regular legislation, start passing bills that actually have a positive effect. send them to the senate. if the senate democrats want to block them, let the senate democrats block them. this idea that some kind of phony negotiation at the white house -- it's clear the president has a sense of hubris from his victory. it's clear they don't want to do anything serious. how can yiu have a serious discussion about the, quote, fiscal cliff, when the president is talking about spending more, particularly when you look at the information coming out on how they spent the solar money, it's a scandal, how many billions of dollars they misapplied to lost causes, and how many people got rich out of government guarantees promptly cashing out as soon as they got the money. i think congress ought to slow down, have a lot more hearings and a lot more markups, and produce a number of separate small bills, and then let the senate democrats do they really

want to go into 2014 as the obstructioniness senate or take up positive legislation and get something done. >> greta: quote, we don't need a surrender caucus, a shot at the senate republicans that they were giving in. if they take your advice, they have three or four weeks left before they hit the so-called sequestration or fiscal cliff. are you suggesting we go over it? >> first of all, there's no sign that speaker boehner is backing down. what i said in general to both house and senate republicans, to some of the members who had this attitude, oh, my gosh, we've got to accept something, we've got to accept something. my question is, why? the next election is two years from now. it's not next week. it's not the week after. you have time. take advantage of the time.

do the right things for america. don't worry about the politics of it. don't worry about the grover norquist politics. and don't worry about the barack obama politics. just do what you honestly believe in. the house ought to pass what it can. the house can function. it can sends lots of stuff to the senate and begin to build up a wave of energy at the senate that says are the democrats in the senate going to be owe obstructionist none of these good ideas, none of these reforms, efforts to save money, are going to get there. after a couple weeks that begins to build pressure on the senate. what's right now is, the republicans are surrounded by the news media and the democrats who are creating an artificial standard, and basically saying, if you don't sell out on taxes, you're bad people. well, i don't think they should accept that standard asset by liberals who are proving, as u just pointed out in the president's thing tonight, they want to spend more money. they're not about to do anything that helps with the deficit. they want higher taxes to spend even more money to put even more

power in washington, d.c. to have an even bigger bureaucracy. >> greta: all right. let me tell you one other thing that i thought was surprising today. secretary of treasury tim geithner proposed limiting purview over the federal borrowing limit, which is another way of saying give the president, any future president, give the president without a limit, without conceive sight. is that how you see that? >> sure. if you were a liberal, you wanted to run up the biggest possible deficit. frankly the congress ought to move in the opposite direction and start hearings of oversight on the federal reserve, which has put far more money into the economy than the treasury has, and which has yielded far more economic power the treasury. the amount of power that ben bernanke has chairman of the federal reserve is totally inappropriate in a free society. again, i would have the house republicans organize virtually every committee and every

subcommittee to have the largest wave of hearings in 2013 so the country begins to learn how inefficient, how wasteful, in some cases how corrupt the entire system has become, and we get this information out in the open. that will increase the public desire to cut spending rather than raise taxes. >> greta: i don't think the american people even realize what kind of accounting washington does. like if they want to make something seem bag, big, they multiply it 10 times, so it seems like a consider a cut, for instance, in the sixth year of the ten-year program, they reduce the amount of the increase that they originally planned, that's considered a cut. i mean, the way they do the number crunching on capitol hill, or in washington, absolutely makes your skin crawl. >> sure. one of the things that ought to be attached to any kind of debt ceiling is to end baseline budgeting, which is what you're describing, going back to a world the rest of us live in where a $1 increase is called an increase, a $1 cut is called a

cut. as you just pointed out, the current model at the congressional budget office is an engine of liberalism and an engine of big government. the congressional republicans ought to demand as part of their price for having -- passing any future debt ceiling, that we eliminate baseline budgeting and go to an accurate accounting. >> greta: tell me, if we're having this conversation january 2, what will we be discussing? will we have gone off the fills or will there have been a last-minute deal behind closed doors here in washington? what's going to happen? >> well, i mean, the pattern has been for a really disgusting deal that accomplishes almost nothing, that increases the size of government at the cost of the american people. what i've been watching is a model that somebody described as socialist austerity. that's where you keep raising taxes and keep raising regulations on the private sector while you keep growing government. so the result is the economy

gets sicker and weaker. greece, for example, has seen its economy shrink by 7% in the last year. all of european is in recession now. the last official number was the economy actually shrank last month for all of europe as a unit. japan has been stuck for 23 years in a decaying economy. 23 years. and i think we're seeing a pressure in washington for exactly the same pattern. that's what's happening in california, in sacramento. it's what's happening in illinois, in springfield. it's what's happening in new york, in abdominal. it's big government getting bigger and bigger while the private sector gets smaller and smaller, making the debt problems even harder to deal with. >> greta: just so i understand, so do you think the wiser thing for the house republicans, republicans in the senate, is to get a 90-day deal, push things down the road for 90 days, hold hearings in the meantime and do it piecemeal? >> yes. >> greta: or better to push it off the fiscal cliff and take the draconian impact and --

>> they should offer to break down the cliff into a series of foothills. they should offer to postpone any immediate crisis, but they should be adamant they're not going to accept a one size package that increases government spending and requires tax increases while achieving nothing on entitlement reform, which is exactly what the democrats will try to push them into. >> greta: how can we fix washington? besides the baseline accounting, that's terrible. i think it's horrible that the congress and president has known for a year and a half, this was going to happen, and they didn't do anything. they let the super committee, it didn't work out, so they didn't do anything until now. they take a three-month vacation, and we pay them to campaign for their own jobs. i mean, and they've done absolutely nothing. americans are jobless. americans want job. they do nothing. >> the only way to change is free people demand better

leadership. president obama just won re-election, so he can claim he has a mandate. i don't think it's a mandate to raise taxes, increase the size of government and put us further in debt. that's his argument. that's the process of self government. the american people will have to take a grip, not just washington, but look at how bad things are in illinois and california and new york. several of our states are very, very bads shape. >> greta: california will be interesting to watch, because they have a democratic governor, democratic legislatures now, and they've got big problems. so california is -- the democrats in california have a chance to either, you know, make things look really good or let things look very bad. at least i'm keeping my eye on that state. >> that's a key indicator of the future. i can tell you, a place like texas, they're thrilled the number of californians leaving and moving to texas. that's happening all across the west. california is exporting some of its hardest-working, best entrepreneurs, because they've given up. i was with a man just yesterday in los angeles that said he's moving out of state, taking all of his business with him, because he can't stabbed the

pain level anymore. >> greta: any thought on benghazi, that investigation? >> sure. the president has every right to nominate who he wants to have as his secretary of state. the senate has every right to demand that the president tell him who changed the instructions for ambassador rice. it's not her fault. it's somebody's. i think the senate should make quite clear they will never have a vote on ambassador rice until they know, if she's his choice, until they know what happened about the information, why she was misinformed, and who in the white house changed the instructions, or somewhere, changed the instructions. that's a legitimate demand by the senators, and they should hold firm on it. >> greta: should it be open? there's an awful lot of stuff that goes on in this town, a lot of secrets. a lot of things are legitimately classified, but -- you're laughing. >> i'm laughing because this is a question of who in the american government changed the information going to the

ambassador of the united nations that was not classified information. she got a set of information that was false. she claims she did what was she was given and it's not her fault. i'm willing to accept her telling the truth. fine. then who did it? it's fair for the senate to say we're not going to approve a new secretary of state until we find out who in the white house or in the intelligence community fundamentally set out a dishonest, misinformation for the american people. it was repeated on five different national television shows by the ambassador of the united nations. i don't blame ambassador rice. i accept her version of what she did, but then she's kicked the ball back into the white house, and they had better tell us. i don't think the senate has any obligation to approve her until the white house has told them that. >> greta: i don't like all the discussion behind closed doors. i don't believe that everything asked of her, or anyone else in connection with this investigation, is classified. i think that's a horrible

disease in this city, if you don't tell something, overclassify it, so the rest of us can't find out. we have to do it through leaks. >> if she's nominated, you'll see open hearings, a great deal of material put on the record, because it's too sensitive a case for them to try to hide it. by the way, congressman frank did tell me, he's introducing a proposal for a watergate-type committee to look into in much more detail. >> greta: i just want the facts. then we can all move on. it's been hard getting the facts. mr. speaker, thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> greta: and straight ahead, arizona governor jan brewer did something that's likely to annoy, actually really annoy, president obama. what is it? she will tell you herself. that's next. plus, no surprise that senators are drilling ambassador susan rice about the terrorist attacks in benghazi, but why is one u.s. senator now ain't tear gating ir

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>> greta: 17. that's how many republican governors are saying no, no to setting up state-run health exchanges mandated by obamacare. arizona governor jan brewer is joining that growing list. good evening, governor. governor, tell me, why have you decided not to set up the arizona state exchange, ned go to -- instead go to the federal exchange. >> well, first, let me begin by saying that after a lot of outreach and input, sitting down and deliberating over this, it was very, very clear to me,

because for the state of arizona to set up a state exchange would be far too risky, far too expensive, and it would be an exchange in name only in the state of arizona. it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever at all for us to move forward in that direction. >> greta: i've seen that you've done a study that governors, that it would cost anywhere between $27 million and $40 million in the year 2015, the first year the federal government picks up the cost, then goes to the states from then on. that's a lot of money. i'm curious, what do any of the states, if you know, what do any of the states who do their own exchanges, what do they get out of it that would possibly compensate for $27 million to $40 million expense? >> i would have no idea. after investigating this very, very thoroughly, this was one of the most difficult decisions i've had to make, and we know that the affordable care act is going to be the law of the land,

but the bottom line is is that it's way too expensive, we're not going to know what's going to happen, because the federal government will come in and rewrite rules, they won't fund it, so in 2015 in arizona, it will cost my citizens between $27,000 or $40,000 a year to keep it operating. >> greta: thousand or million? >> i'm sorry, greata. between $27 million and $40 million a year. >> greta: okay. what do you -- what i still don't understand, you said it's a difficult decision. i've only spoken to the republican governors, only got the republican side, but trying to sort it out myself, i don't understand what the states get by setting up their own exchanges, when you know in the

year 2015, not 2014, it's going to start to cost you a lot of money. i don't know what you get in exchange. why not have the feds spend it? >> well, and i agree totally. it makes absolutely no sense, in my opinion, for any state to take on this responsibility, this obligation, and not have any control over it, because we know that virtually in 2014, when this all starts to be in place, for the people that we represent, they will have total control over it, and our citizens will have to pay for it. it's going to be a difficult thing to set up. it's bad policy, moving forward. if the feds want to do this, the affordable care act is going to be the law of the land, well, then they can run it. they can take full responsibility for it. but let me say this, in arizona we have the model program for medicaid in our state. model program.

and we have been very cautious about what we have done, and it is a program that's been able to deliver services to medicaid patients affordably and responsibly. we do it low cost. >> greta: governor, i've got to go, and i appreciate you showing up. i probably should get a democratic governor on some day to tell me why this would make sense for other states, because it is at least somewhat perplexing. governor, thank you. >> thank you, greta. >> greta: coming up, it is no secret that senators are grilling susan rice about the terror attacks in benghazi, but wait till you hear what less they want her to talk about. one u.s. senator interrogating rice about the two 1998 embassy truck bombings in east africa. what possible connection could

she have in senator sue collins is here to tell you next. and bill o'reilly ripping into one governor. what did the governor

>> greta: if ambassador rice were trying to smooth over the benghazi controversy, she blew it. her meetings with gop senators only raising more questions, especially the meeting with senator susan collins. senator collins pressing ambassador rice about her state department work back in 1998. rice was working at the time when terrorists attacked two u.s. embassy with truck bombs. the attacks in kenya and tan zaneia killing over 200. 12 were americans. here's senator collins. you spoke yesterday with ambassador rice, is that right? >> i did. we met privately to about 75 minutes. so it was a long meeting. >> greta: did you get the sense she answered every question

fully that you asked of her? >> no, she did not. i asked her a wide range of questions ranging from why she agreed as u.n. ambassador to go on the shows in the first place since that position, like secretary of state, is not detailed campaigning, to more detailed questions on why she blamed the attacks on the video, why she said there was a protest when there wasn't. it was really a wide-ranging discussion. >> greta: was her inability to answer some of the questions, did you get the sense -- i realize it's sort of a sense -- she didn't want to answer them or didn't have the information or was there some other reason? >> frankly, i found her to be very defensive and not very forthcoming. i asked her, for example, why she maintains that it had been a

protest that evolved into an attack when the president of libya had been on right before her and had said they'd already arrested 50 people, that they were extremists, that they were people with ties to al-qaeda, that some of them had come from mali, and that they -- that it had been a premeditated attack. her answer to that in particular was really unsatisfactory. she basically said that she thought our intelligence reporting was superior, and when you think that the president of the country is telling you that it's a terrorist attack, you would think that would cause you to at least pause and think about what your other intelligence was saying. >> greta: do you think once she appeared on the five sunday shows, was she appearing as a spokesperson for the government to inform the american people or

was she there as an advocate too political reasons? >> that's really a key question. i believe that the white house asked her to come on because they felt that she would emphasize the points that the obama administration wanted emphasizing. that's what's discoaging to me. i don't think it's a coincidence that secretary of state hillary clinton declined the opportunity to go on those shows. i think she realized that the secretary of state -- and i would argue the u.n. ambassador -- should be above politics, should not be talking about a very contentious issue right in the midst of a hard-fought political campaign. >> greta: one of the things you spoke about at the press conference today, when you spoke to reporters, 1998, our embassies were bombed. prior to the bombings, apparently ambassadors asked for

more security, and 12 americans were murdered, plus many more murdered in those two bombings. ambassador rice worked at the state department. were you satisfied with the questions she asked about what she knew in terms of any of the requests for protection or beefing up security? i know you asked her those questions. >> i did ask her those questions. we take a look at the 1998 accountability review report on the bombings in kenya and tanzania, and at the time susan rice was essentially in charge of african affairs at the state department. this was a searing incident, one of al-qaeda's most successful truck bombings, and 12 americans decide. 4,000 people were injured. 200 people overall lost their

lives. so this was an event that you would think you would remember in great detail if you were the person who was the assistant secretary for african affairs. i knew from the report that the ambassador of kenya, our ambassador to kenya, had made repeated requests for more security, warning of the terrorist threats and the danger to the american personnel there as well as others working at the embassy, and that those requests had been turned down. when i asked susan rice, she told me she wasn't expecting a question on that, and that she would have to refresh her memory and go back and think about it. she then said that she was sure she was not involved in turning down any requests for additional security. well, those answers, in and of themselves, are somewhat contradictory, but i can't

imagine not remembering in searing detail such a horrific attack on our embassy. >> greta: did you walk out of the meeting with a sense that you were more likely to vote for her confirmation should she be nominated by the president for secretary of state or that you were less likely? >> i walked out of the meetings with a profound sense of disappointment. i actually presented susan rice to the foreign relations committee and the senate when she was first nominated to be the u.n. ambassador. i had spoken for her, even though i did not know her well. i actually presented her to the committee. so clearly i wanted her to be successful. i was proud of her. yet i left that meeting with

less of a feeling about her judgment and about her suitability to be secretary of state. now it's premature for me to make a final decision. she obviously hasn't even been nominated much less have a nomination hearing, but i am very troubled by the fact that she gave such conflicting answers. and she had access to much more than just the unclassified talking points. she had access to the full presidential daily brief on intelligence. so she was well informed and knew that our intelligence community felt that there were ties to al-qaeda affiliates that were involved in the attacks. >> greta: senator, thank you. nice to see you. >> thank you. >> greta: coming up, uncertainty in the middle east tonight. israelis on edge as the u.n.

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>> greta: is there a war on christmas? bill o'reilly rips into rhode island governor lincoln chafee for refusing to use the term "christmas tree." >> there's a tradition to -- >> but i -- >> bill: wait, wait. there's a tradition that supersedes the governors of rhode island with all due respect. there's a tradition to the christmas tree. all right? it's there in context. so guys like you come in, and the previous governors, i'm sure there are people in other places, say, you know what, we don't want christmas tree tradition anymore. and that's what tees people off. you say you want people happy. they're not happy with you, governor. they want to call a christmas tree a christmas tree. >> these controversy you generate them here, but they shouldn't be controversies. >> bill: i think it's two different issues.

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♪ the trucks are going farther. the new 2013 ram 1500. ♪ with the best-in-class fuel economy. engineered to move heaven and earth. ♪ guts. glory. ram. >> live from america's news headquarters, i'm marianne rafferty. the senate voting to speed up the withdrawal of u.s. troops from afghanistan, cricketing the will of the house which passed a bill calling for maintaining at least 68,000 troops until the end of 2014.

the house and the senate have to reconcile their competing versions. super storm sandy packing a bigger punch than thought, halting the sale of homes and retail, blaming the storm for weak november sales and new sales plunged in the northeast last month. going above and beyond the call of duty. a tourist snapping a picture of an nypd officer, giving a homeless man socks and boots on a cold night. she put it up on facebook and now it's an internet sensation. now back to "on the record." wie forward. >> greta: a shocking turn of events tonight, for the first time the u.n. voting to recognize the state of palestine, causing a celebration in the west bank, but israel and the united states are not celebrating. they both tried but failed to block the u.n. move.

former u.n. ambassador john bolton joins us. nice to see. could this have been prevented? >> absolutely. this is a reflection of the obama administration to take this issue seriously. it was demonstrated last october when the palestinian authority was made a member of the u.n. scientific and cultural organization, when it never should have been. palestine is not a state. that's a fact. when the u.n. engages in this kind of activity it shows a real lack of administration commitment to stop it from happening. >> greta: what does it mean as a practical purpose? >> it has a couple of practical implications. the first is the general assembly having decided that palestine is in a state, it's now in a position to go to every other u.n. specialized agency and get admission, which will trigger off a cutoff of u.n.

funding, number one. number two, i think there will be a reaction in congress. senator orrin hatch has said he'll introduce legislation to cut off funding for the u.n. itself. finally the palestinians will try to accede to a number of treaties only open for states like the international criminal court treaty and others to engage in what people call law fair against the state of israel. rally israel is makinisrael is e by downplaying this. >> greta: what is netanyahu thinking about it tonight? >> before the vote, there were threats that israel, for example, would stop collecting taxes for the palestinian authority. that appears to be off the table. this is what happens. mostly it's the u.s. fault. let's be clear. it's what happens when you take threats off the table. we've been through this before. we did this 20 years ago, and

defeated the palestinians. this is how we did it. secretary of state jim bakker issued a statement saying he would recommend to the president that the united states make no further contributions, voluntary or assessed to any international organization which makes any change in the plo's status as an observer organization. if the administration had simply done what jim bakker did 20 years ago, this thing would have been deader than a door nail. >> greta: it feels like israel is on the run in terms of things that are happening with israel. >> i think they are. i think what happened in this cease-fire with hamas leaves them in a strategically weaker position. it leaves iran and its terrorist supporters in a stronger position. you've got the ongoing effort by the muslim brotherhood in egypt to solidify its power over egypt and the military there. this is not looking for israel. >> greta: certainly is disturbing events tonight on that front. anyway, ambassador, nice to see you sir. >> glads to be here.

>> greta: straight ahead, does senator john cornyn think president obama wants you to go president obama wants you to go over the fiscal [ male announcer ] this december, remember -- what starts with adding a friend... ♪ ...could end with adding a close friend. the lexus december to remember sales event is on. this is the pursuit of perfection. bass pro shops has great gift ideas at huge savings during our cyber week sale at basspro.com. check in every day for amazing web buster specials. plus, get free shipping on orders of $75 or more.

>> greta: we're about to go head first over the fiscal cliff and democrats and republicans are still miles apart. we spoke with gop senator john

cornyn about president obama's plans too tax hikes. talking about increasing taxes, letting the tax rate go up on people making over $250,000 a year. as i understand it, that's about $85 billion a year, funding the government for eight days. $85 billion is a lot of money, but if you look at government waste, even senator tom coburn has identified $20 billion in waste. has anybody thought about getting the revenue from waste, seeing just how much we really need? >> the problem has usually been if you rdise taxes, the spending cuts will come later, and they never seem to manifest. >> greta: but not even spending cuts. actually waste. >> well, yeah, waste and fraud and abuse are the famous three horsemen of cuts. but the fact is that many times they're harder to get to it would afternoon. i think tom coburn has done a great service by identifying a lot of duplication and waste in the government, including in the

pentagon. i'm a defense hawk, but the pentagon needs to do a better job when it comes to handling the people's money too. you can't close that gap between spending and the debt by just raising taxes on the two upper income tax breaking news, you havbrackets.you have to deal wig entitlements like medicare and social security. >> greta: what do you think is going to happen? will we go over the fiscal cliff, or a last-minute hustle and something will be packaged together, probably not very satisfactory to anyone, not likely to solve our nation's problems? >> well, i feel like it's more likely than not we will go off the cliff. i'm not convinced that's not the president's plan. patty murray, one of the leading democrats, gave a specie a few weeks ago at brookings ago, said cliff in order to generate the additional taxes they want they would be willing to do so. i think that's incredibly reckless, because a lot of americans will be put out of

work, the economy will crater, we'll be in a recession again, and once you start down that road it hard to know where it stops. >> greta: how does it affect cliff? i understand if you're in the defense industry, you'll lose your job. you're a shopkeeper in the middle of the country, we go off the fiscal cliff, what does it mean for you? >> we know the economy needs to grow at 3%, probably closer to 4% or better in order to create new jobs, to make up for the increase in population. right now our unemployment rate has been unacceptablebly hi-fi longtime, around 7.9%. unless the economy is growing, you're not creating the jobs necessary to bring the unemployment down. if we go off the cliff, the economy will quit growing as fast, as a matter of fact going into negative growth or recession. a lot of people will be put out of work and no new jobs being created because of the uncertainty of the eoonomy. >> greta: why do you think the president would want us to go

off the fiscal cliff? why do we have the brinkmanship? >> he sees this as ultimate leverage. i think he also thinks he got a mandate from the election, which he's mistaken about. we got exactly the same after the election as we had before, which is decided government, which to means the american public trust neither political party to have all the answers. last time we had the president's party in complete control of the government for the first two years of the obama administration, we got obamacare, the stimulus, a lot of spending that's contributed to the debt. so what we need to do is the reasonable thing, and that's to try to work together to bridge our differences. you're right, nobody's going to get all of what they want, but i think this is an area where the 80/20 rule might asupply. you get 80% of what we find in common we need to do, and leave the other 20% behind. >> greta: coming up, move over, mtv, there's a new music video. that's next.

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[ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. >> greta: now this is a first, the very first music video created entirely off instagram, all the way from still photos. no video was ever shot. take a look. >> ♪